Can it be said that...
free will => existence of an option of death
there does not exist an option of death => there does not exist free will.
there is an illusion of free will => there exists an option of death!
??
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Saturday, April 25, 2009
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26 comments:
u mean suicide everytime u say death?
Existence of an option of death can be included as part of free will. However, life being too precious and death being something that cannot be reversed, yet, the option cannot be so easily given. If the option could be freely exercised, our world would certainly become one hopeless place! However, I myself am not very clear about my stand on euthanasia. While it does sound convincing in extreme cases, the problem is, where does one draw the line for extreme cases? Anything that defies long-standing ethics is bound to raise never-ending questions. Still, I would prefer to say, that "there does not exist an option of death => there does not exist free will" does not hold true. This is because, when people are desperate, they do not see any option other than death, while if they could only hold on, they could go on to turn around their lives for the better. Besides, there are always exceptions to the rule and we always make space for them. After reading your post, I googled for 'euthanasia' and read this "http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s237114.htm" and was stunned by the figures.
@sandhya -
Choice of death is choice of death. I can't reduce it to the word suicide. In fact, the definition of the phrase will have to derive meaning from the context.
Is the phrase "choosing not to live" as meaningless as the phrase "choosing not to die"? The latter only makes sense when confronted with the question of "choice of death". God, it is so much like the complexity classes in computer science! About whether one is indeed the same as the other. And the importance of direction of the definition.
@Meens -
Euthanasia, interesting in itself. the ethics, philosophy etc. but it is not what i meant. the question is about the existence a choice of death implying the existence of free will. not about the morality of the choice made if it were indeed a choice.
"Given" by who? If it is given or taken by somebody, is it free will? And who decides what making one's life "better" means.
The question is - does non-existence of a choice of death preclude the existence of free will? Equivalently, is existence of a choice of death a necessary condition for existence of free will?
@sandhya
Complexity classes and directionality i meant - is choosing to die the compliment of choosing not to die? If that is the case, if you have an answer to one, do you have an answer to the other?
@meens
>Existence of an option of death can be included as part of free will.
Are you saying that that converse of my statement holds. i.e. the option of death is a sufficient condition for free will? i.e. if there is an option of death, there is free will? i.e. if there is no free will, there is no option of death?
apologise if i am adding syntactical complexity to an already complex question. I realised that, I am more interested now in the question and related questions, than in the answers.
I can see that you are learning too much math! :))
i'm too simple to be discussing stuff like this..i couldn't go beyond 50 pages in 'the myth of sisyphus'..i've never really asked these questions and it is beyond my comprehension..
And, I'm very surprised that this blog is such a small one (especially with free will and all involved) :))
Lol, would you would have preferred more of this? :)
Incidentally this seems to have something to do with my exams! I become so weird and indulge in so much nonsense that I'd like to believe it can't be my fault that I'm so useless!! I take solace in the excuse of non-existence of free will and then bring out the choicest argument from my armory.
This time I wrote it down as implications on the papers that I was not reading and decided to post them.
Just FYI, contrary to what it may seem, I am not a proponent of anti-free will.
What exactly is 'free will' here? Can someone explain? :)
Does it refers to freedom to choice between life and death?
Too abstract/complicated for me to understand. When wise souls converse, I prefer to keep my trap shut :-) When we have everything in life, we get bored and think about death, suicide and other nonsense. When we are screwed, it's only then we realize the value of life. The irony of human logic.
@kiran - free will is a philosophical term that questions the cause of human decisions/actions. Why does a human do what he does? How much control does a human have over his senses/sense of reason/actions? Are we really free? Is our "will"(action) really "free"(determined by noone but us)?
@anonymous -"wise souls"!
sniff sniff. i smell sarcasm. You can just say I am jobless.
:) Which i was not. or at least not supposed to be.
I understand there is some irony. But I think humans value their life irrespective of who it maybe or how happy/unhappy/screwed/content they are.
This is perhaps why we cannot choose to die so easily. The choice probably isn't really there although it appears as if there is one.
Jobless? From your older blogs, it sounded like you were a Secretary, HR or in some Corporate function. I guess you were too smart for your organization's tastes... :-)
@anonymous - i am lost. which of my posts suggest that i am an HR, secretary or in some corporate function? or if you inferred this through a psychoanalysis of my blog, thanks. i hope i can get back to you when i am considering a career shift.
FYI. i am not jobless. yet. although it might appear to you like i am.
in case you don't mind answering the question, can i know how you reached this blog?
Elementary, my dear Watson. All it takes is patience and some common sense.
..as for reaching your blog, I used Internet Explorer v6 and Google’d the term "Dispassionate_Observer" Is it a crime?
@anonymous
very enlightening. as for common sense - clearly i don't have it as you have so perceptively commented about with all sarcasm. it is not "elementary" to me.
crime? how? i just wanted to know if we knew each other or if it was through the 5 people who know about my blog or if you were google's stereotypical "random surfer", in which case i can expect to have a nice pagerank! i didn't realise that the name was caught and indexed by the google bots.
Pagerank, Bots? I was under the impression that you were a non-techie. As for sarcasm, your comments are dripping with them :-) ..and on only 5 people being aware of your blogs, I like to gently remind that you are famous dear. Tut-tut, don't be too humble.
It’s unethical to destroy something that you didn’t create. The blog might as well be named “free will = choosing the option of death for oneself; free will = choosing the option of death for any human you want”. Life is an unanswered question. Did one create his own life, so that he can destroy it?? The choice of ending Life rests with the one who created Life. Its impossible to take sides on a mystery without having the key to unlock it. It’s possible that Life is just a Darwin explanation in which case there is nothing unethical in taking one’s own life or choosing the option of death. It could also be possible that Lives and the Universe are tied up to a force and are interlinked to one another, meaning that the choice of the beginning and the end rests with the force. Since we don’t know for sure lets not choose to live or not choose to die but choose to let nature take its own course.
I am assuming the realm of this discussion includes only human lives because, then arises the question, how can one kill anything, plants , animals or any living thing??? cos they have life in them.
@anonymous
well you are right. :) it may just be that a little over 5 ppl know of my blog through me. but if this blog indeed is "famous" as you say it is, it is because of the popularity of these friends of mine. i've already thanked them for the little traffic there is.
ok, getting back to the topic. if you care to comment about this-with little sarcasm , i'll be glad. i will refrain from sarcasm myself. :p
so how free are we really? enough to be able to choose death over life if we want to? what does it mean by "wanting to" choose death over life? it can't be quantified or verified. so if someone says he wanted to die but couldn't, does it mean he didn't want it enough or that he couldn't because he didn't really have a choice? Because choosing to die is unnatural. because we are instinctively programmed to live. not die.
clearly, there is some such thing as lack of control over the physical variables around us. but what about the mind? are we really in control of our choices? or does this quesition first require the resolution of the question of the mind-body duality? does this have no yes/no answer and do we have to get into realms of more vagueness asking ourselves "to what extent are we free"?
@wilbert
thanks for the direction. :)
>It’s unethical to destroy something that you didn’t create.
pretty much what i meant by directionality.
but if you let nature choose its own course, can i put all my actions into nature's responsibility. can i let the force decide everything for me? or as you said, only things we don't have control over? but then, precisely what are those things? is that what religion teaches us as thumb rules?
another question about it being unethical to kill something you don't create. is it unethical to control or attempt to control (exert power over) something you don't create?
That’s not what I meant, I am not asking you to let the force but nature or time take its own course. ‘Cause we don’t know if the force exists. We should not interfere in things on which we have no idea about like Life. Let Life take its own course with time. That’s natural, so I say let nature take its own course. Nature is virtual here.
Its not unethical if your boss controls you in your workplace, cos both of you are in a world of occupational positions created by and followed by both of you. You know exactly what the source is, what the objective is , your clear about it. Its unethical if your boss tells you what to eat , but within occupations’ boundaries control is ethics.
Make your life interesting and passionate so that you love every moment of it. ..and that brings us to the question of, how about a date? or are you held down by the dogma of control or nature, belief, rules etc. having you in its hold. In your own words, "to what extent are you really free"?
Also I said "you" were famous and not your blog. Ordinary people follow famous people's blogs. (It's alright, don't be too humble).
And please continue in your natural style, with doles of sarcasm. In the long run, you are going to be you and I am going to be me. So why pretend and try fool the world for some temporary reasons, persons.
Life is a gift as long as you do not vegetate into a burden to the society. When you reach that point, kick the bucket fast.
@wilbert
> We should not interfere in things on which we have no idea about like Life.
what is biology but the study of life? the healthcare industry would go bankrupt if they decide to switch to this philosophy?
@anonymous - how does one kick the bucket "fast"?
It is now my turn to say "Very funny"! If only I could see your reaction, facial expressions and all. Some questions really do have a yes or no answer. :)
However the questions you asked do not. Choice of death or life may not exist. But this does not preclude the existence of free will. If free will does not exist just because you cannot choose to live or die, you understand it means that no other choice exists? It means that everything that will be done has been fixed earlier.
@anonymous
agreed.
the existence of free will is a decision problem that appears to be undecidable. And certainly the existence of a choice of death does not reduce the complexity of the problem. I also think that the question of choice of death itself is another problem belonging to the same class!
Checkout December 21st 2012 and its implications. The desired solution is near at hand.
wilbe!!!! no way... you fall for that? and how, may i know, is it the desired solution?
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